Dear all...

I was introduced with a new type of credit card called iCAN, which
purpose to be used for online shopping. The card is available from
HSBC Bank in HK. I am not sure if this type of card is available in
any other country. The sale point of the card is that you can fix the
spending amount for each month, Of course you can increase the amount
later as you wish. In this way, at least you wouldn't have to worry
too much if your credit card is misused since in the worst case, you
only lose the maximum amount you have set.

I am also one of many people that don't feel secure to have to provide
personal details and credit card information when shopping online.
This why, I have never done any online shopping. But there are many
things that you can’t get it locally, but you can buy it from
online shop easily. In my case, I always find it difficult to get some
specific books but they are available from online bookshop like
Amazon.

So, with this type of card available, even though it doesn't really
convince me more on the security with my personal information, but I
think I might try.

Please share your thought. Any comments are very welcome.
C. Natgaranone

"C. Natgaranone" <jennynat2049@yahoo.com> wrote in message...

<snip>
>
> I was introduced with a new type of credit card called iCAN, which
> purpose to be used for online shopping. The card is available from
> HSBC Bank in HK. I am not sure if this type of card is available in
> any other country. The sale point of the card is that you can fix the
> spending amount for each month, Of course you can increase the amount
> later as you wish. In this way, at least you wouldn't have to worry
> too much if your credit card is misused since in the worst case, you
> only lose the maximum amount you have set.
>
<snip>

How is this card different to any other credit card? All cards can have a
limit set and some people get a credit card with a small limit just to use
on the net .... My impression would be that this is a marketing ploy to
entice consumers to this credit card in particular, but there are many ways
a consumer can limit their credit card liability without having to sign up
for a specific card such as this.

"Amidala" <yaadda_yaddaNoSpam@hotmail.com> wrote in message...

<snip>
 
> How is this card different to any other credit card? All cards can have a
> limit set and some people get a credit card with a small limit just to use
> on the net .... My impression would be that this is a marketing ploy to
> entice consumers to this credit card in particular, but there are many ways
> a consumer can limit their credit card liability without having to sign up
> for a specific card such as this.

Even better, in the UK (where this bank is located) customers are only
liable for the first fifty quid in fraud on credit cards anyway - and
most banks waive that fifty. This doesn't stop companies from
advertising their cards as "special" because you're only liable for
the first fifty quid in online fraud. :P

But hey, if the card is successful, I suppose the marketers are doing
their job - selling us stuff we don't really need.

--
R.Duke 

Very true - as long as their credit cards sell, the bank has achieved its
marketing aim.

From marketing point of view, I don't think issue such as security is
part of their selling strategy though. Other benefits that they offer
would make me apply for it such as gifts that they offer if
application is successful.

C. Natgaranone

In article <f2e064e5.0108141533.18a3fbac@posting.google.com>, 
r.duke@hushmail.com (R.Duke) wrote:
> Even better, in the UK (where this bank is located) customers are only
> liable for the first fifty quid in fraud on credit cards anyway - and
> most banks waive that fifty. This doesn't stop companies from
> advertising their cards as "special" because you're only liable for
> the first fifty quid in online fraud. :P

Typically, you're not even liable for that - the merchant pays the _whole_ 
bill.

Alun.
~~~~

[Note that answers to questions in newsgroups are not generally
invitations to contact me personally for help in the future.]
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alun@texis.com (Alun Jones) writes:

> 
> Typically, you're not even liable for that - the merchant pays the _whole_ 
> bill.
> 

but the merchant has to get the money from some where ... it just doesn't
magically pop into their till whenever they've been hacked.

In article <ur8ud8lpq.fsf@earthlink.net>, Anne & Lynn Wheeler 
<lynn@garlic.com> wrote:
> alun@texis.com (Alun Jones) writes:
> 
> > Typically, you're not even liable for that - the merchant pays the _whole_ 
> > bill.
> 
> but the merchant has to get the money from some where ... it just doesn't
> magically pop into their till whenever they've been hacked.

Yes - they add on a certain amount to all the other customers' charges to 
cover costs of accepting credit cards.

Oh, wait, you're thinking that all a vendor has to cover is refunding the 
money that was charged fraudulently.  No, the vendor also has to pay a 
"chargeback fee" - often up to $25.  Oh, and on top of that, they get to pay 
the transaction fee coming _and_ going.  Until we stopped taking phoned 
orders for software, and started inspecting each order manually, we were 
seriously considering not accepting credit card orders at all, because of 
the extra risk it opened us up to.

That's why I get peeved every time I see someone say "I don't want to use my 
credit card online - it's not safe" - I've yet to see a credit card holder 
get dunned for fraud on their card.  Sure, they may have to spend a little 
bit of time filing the chargeback forms, but it's vendors that pay the real 
money (because, of course, we also have to fill out a counterpart to the 
chargeback forms - and that's not even counting that we're out whatever we 
shipped).

Honestly, I'd be _well_ pleased to see someone put a real secure ordering 
scheme into place, where we could receive a guarantee that we would get the 
funds before we shipped product.  But it wouldn't be "convenient" to provide 
a scheme secure for both parties, so the customers - and the banks - are 
protected to the hilt, and the vendors get screwed over.  You can imagine 
how much I hissed when I saw the CapitalOne adverts appeared, portraying 
online vendors as evil creatures, whose goal is to steal money from you 
every time you use your credit card online.

Alun.
~~~~

[Note that answers to questions in newsgroups are not generally
invitations to contact me personally for help in the future.]

Is it really the merchant covering this?  I thought it was the bank that
issued the credit card.

And as for where the money comes from, I think they generally purchase
insurance to cover it.  Of course, they have to pay insurance premiums, and
this eventually trickles down to the merchant fees, credit card annual
fees, interest rates, and prices of the goods being purchased.

-- 
Barry Margolin, barmar@genuity.net
Genuity, Woburn, MA
*** DON'T SEND TECHNICAL QUESTIONS DIRECTLY TO ME, post them to newsgroups.
Please DON'T copy followups to me -- I'll assume it wasn't posted to the group. 

Sorry, I meant "vendor", since "merchant" has a few different meanings.  But 
yes, in every instance that I am aware of where a card has been used 
fraudulently to purchase from us, _we_ had to pay the money back, _plus_ a 
hefty chargeback fee, _plus_ a transaction fee, _plus_ the threat of having 
our discount rate increased.

> And as for where the money comes from, I think they generally purchase
> insurance to cover it.  Of course, they have to pay insurance premiums, and
> this eventually trickles down to the merchant fees, credit card annual
> fees, interest rates, and prices of the goods being purchased.

I'm not sure what increasing the discount rate actually does, because I 
can't see any extra risk assumed by the credit card company - they have our 
account, and the money gets withdrawn when the chargeback is made.  Our only 
alternative is to try and contact the card-holder, and ask them to withdraw 
the chargeback request so that we can make a refund, in which case we don't 
have to pay the chargeback fee.  Needless to say, many people refuse to do 
so, because they think the vendor is somehow responsible - of course, the 
bank "authorised" the charge, but that doesn't mean it's a safe transaction 
from the vendor's point of view.

I've even heard anecdotal evidence of cases where physical product was 
shipped to the card-holder's location, and signed for, and _still_ the 
vendor got dunned for everything (and, of course, no product returned).  
It's still more profitable for us to take credit card orders, but sometimes 
it makes me want to go back to the days when we were a cash-only business.  
(And don't get me started on unpaid purchase orders :-))

Alun.
~~~~

[Note that answers to questions in newsgroups are not generally
invitations to contact me personally for help in the future.]
 

Hi Amidala,

Yes. I probably agree with you that there aren't much different from
the normal credit card which we also can limit the amount. The major
distinction of this card with the normal credit card is that it can
only be used for online shopping...which I think this somehow would
offer benefit one way or anyther. Some people might just want to have
a separate card which can only be used for some specific purpose
(e.g.:- online shopping) for better control of self spending and other
personal reason.

There was once that I entered to one of the website (can't really
remember which one)..and somehow I pressed the 'Back' button to
correct my information and the information that popped up wasn't mine.
It was someone else with every personal details on it. That's quite
scary to me though..and then the machine just got hang.

I don't really think the type of security that we want would really
happen, at least not very near future.

I don't know much about security stuff (technology and the development),
anyone have any experiences or opinion like to share, I like to hear
too.

C. Natgaranone
 

I don't think it's any more secure shopping in the street than online with a
credit card, after all when you pay for something in a store using your
credit/debit card the store always keeps 2 portions of the receipt, what do
they do with these? Also, how long do you keep your receipt for? Do you
destroy this or just put it in the bin?

There are many ways that you could "lose" your credit card number. Online
fraud is in the headlines at the moment but that shouldn't detract from the
other types on credit card fraud that not only exist but seem to be far more
common.

D.

--
__________
Darren Robertson
Technical Support
ORC Software
__________
Tel: +44 (0)20 7942 0999
Fax: +44 (0)20 7942 0940
www.orcsoftware.com
 

I think people are more afraid of loosing their card number through 
online shopping because it is harder to chase. Once you are offline, you
are nowhere. It is not like a physical store where you still feel
there is somewhere that you can go to and check things out regardless
of whether it really helps or not by doing so.

C. Natgaranone
 

To All,

I would like to know anyone that ever felt uncomfortable to do online
shopping the first time, and have still been doing this til now. I am
just wondering that what made you finally decided to go ahead and
shop-online.

Please share your experiences and thoughts.
C. Natgaranone
 

Hi C,

I myself have bought a few things online, but initially I had qualms a few
years ago because I didn't feel I knew enough about the internet and
security to *know* whether the transactions were secure. Now I feel informed
enough to make a decision and am comfortable with online purchases, although
generally it is cheaper/better for me to buy most things in a bricks &
mortar store. Most online transactions are processed using the US $ and the
Australian conversion rate is not good and it is difficult to *see* what
some products are like online. So, I don't often buy online, but the current
reasons are not due to security concerns, but rather personal preferences.

I'm not sure of your interest in this area, but I would suggest pursuing
this broad topic in a new thread if you want a variety of responses, as not
all online purchases are completed using credit cards (money orders. PayPal
etc).