I received a credit card application (some kind of student Visa/Mastercard),
and in looking at the application, I see that they want to know:

    My Resident Alien number (I am not a US citizen yet)
    All sources of income and how much I make per week from each
    My checking account NUMBER, bank and BALANCE
    The account numbers of any credit cards I have and my monthly payments
    The account numbers of any other bank accounts I have and their balances
    Social security number

Should I be wary of providing any of this? Do they have a reasonable right to
my Mastercard and AmEx account numbers and checking balance?

 Matthew Cravit
 Michigan State University
 East Lansing, MI 48825
 cravitma@studentc.msu.edu  OR  cravitm@clvax1.cl.msu.edu
 Compuserve : 71442,225

Matthew B Cravit writes:

>I received a credit card application (some kind of student Visa/Mastercard),
>and in looking at the application, I see that they want to know:

>Should I be wary of providing any of this? Do they have a reasonable right to
>my Mastercard and AmEx account numbers and checking balance?

I'm not sure but you can bet that they will find out your credit status
with them when they do a credit check on you.

I look at it this way, If I'm applying for a credit card I might as well
tell them up front since they will find out anyway.

I'm not sure about the balance but the last application I filled out
just requested the  name of the bank and my account number (probably
to see if I'm a congresscritter who can't balance a checkbook).

Dave

Dave Niebuhr      Internet: niebuhr@bnl.gov / Bitnet: niebuhr@bnl
Brookhaven National Laboratory Upton, LI, NY 11973  (516)-282-3093
Senior Technical Specialist: Scientific Computer Facility

From: Paul Robinson <tdarcos@mcimail.com>
Organization: Tansin A. Darcos & Company, Silver Spring, MD USA
 -----
Matthew B Cravit <cravitma@student.msu.edu>,
(whose initials are coincidentally MC), writes about credit card
applications:
 
MC> I received a credit card application (some kind of student
MC> Visa/Mastercard), and in looking at the application, I see
MC> that they want to know:
 
You have to be careful.  I've got plastic.  I wanted
to get one for years, and I did.  I also have the large bills caused
because all the "pain" of spending real cash vanishes when you use
a credit card.
 
When I purchased a second computer, I did so by a combination of
new equipment and cannibalizing the disk drive out of my old XT.
And I paid cash for it - $500.  (The desk in my room has what was
a programmer's envy ten years ago; two computers.)
 
This expenditure of real money gave me a few days of sleeping problems,
as buyer's remorse set in.  $500 is almost two weeks net pay.  Everything
turned out fine, but there is something about cash that makes you respect
it more than the ease of paying in plastic.  (I count checks and ATM
cards as cash since you have to have "real" assets to cover them.)
 
Three years ago I bought that hard disk for $415.  On plastic, when I
making 1/2 of what I was making now.  Obviously, $415 then is a lot more
money for me in earning power than the $500 was back at Christmas when I
bought my new computer.  But the purchase on plastic didn't give me the
kind of fears that having to cough up "real" money did.
 
I have debit plastic; I regret having it.  I recommend avoiding non
secured cards.  Unless you have the fortidude to pay off the balance
in full.
 
Secured cards require you put your own money in a savings account and
they issue you a credit limit up to that amount.  Some even pay
interest on the deposit.  Since it's your own money, you might not be
tempted to go into expensive debt.
 
Also, for those that really need a credit card, because of renting cars
or hotel rooms and such, I recommend using instead a T&E card that requires
full payment at the end of the month, such as American Express Green or
Carte Blanche/Diners' Club.  These are probably better cards to start
out with since you have to get used to paying them off immediately.
 
But to go back and answer your *direct* questions:
 
MC> that they want to know:
MC>     My Resident Alien number (I am not a US citizen yet)
 
They want to identify you specifically so that they can find you
if you don't pay your bills and they have to report you to credit
bureaus or sue you.
 
MC>     All sources of income and how much I make per week from each
 
This shows them how much debt you can afford to carry.
 
MC>    My checking account NUMBER, bank and BALANCE
MC>    The account numbers of any other bank accounts I have and their
MC>    balances
 
This allows them to determine - from your income - what part of what you
make that you save.  Checking shows how much you keep to pay bills and
current expenses.  Savings shows how much you put aside for the future.
People that spend everything they make and live from paycheck to paycheck
are questionable credit risks.  That includes me and probably 3/4 of the 
readers of this newsgroup, :) but....
 
MC>   The account numbers of any credit cards I have and my monthly 
MC>   payments   
 
Again, how much debt are you carrying now.  I'm surprised it doesn't 
ask where you live (alone, with others, rooming, mortgage, rent) and 
how much you spend on rent per month.
 
MC>     Social security number
 
Same thing, for tracking purposes.
 
Realize that when you get a credit card from someone, you are allowing
them to give you an "unsecured loan" i.e. a promissory note backed by
nothing but your signature, i.e. your promise to repay them.  Thus it   
is in their interest to be sure that (1) they do not give you more  
debt than you are able to pay off at any time (2) that they make sure
they know exactly who you are so that they have the ability to come
after you if you don't pay up.
 
In short, these are reasonable considering the risk they have to take
from fraudulent charges and people who don't pay their debt.  (Now the
whole issue of excessive debt is another one altogether.)

 -----
Paul Robinson -- TDARCOS@MCIMAIL.COM

Matthew B Cravit <cravitma@student.msu.edu> writes:

> I received a credit card application (some kind of student Visa/Mastercard),
> and in looking at the application, I see that they want to know: 
>     My Resident Alien number (I am not a US citizen yet)
>     All sources of income and how much I make per week from each
>     My checking account NUMBER, bank and BALANCE
>     The account numbers of any credit cards I have and my monthly payments
>     The account numbers of any other bank accounts I have and their balances
>     Social security number 
> Should I be wary of providing any of this? Do they have a reasonable right to
> my Mastercard and AmEx account numbers and checking balance?

this sort of question comes up so often in this group, I'm posting this
generally.

There is a distinct difference between being asked for the above
information (e.g. on a credit card application) and being required to
supply it (e.g. on an IRS or other government form). In the former case,
you don't have to fill out the application if you do not wish to
disclose. You have no "reasonable right" to a credit card, so the
(implied) point about forcing them not to receive your (eg) SSN is moot.

Note that this is distinct from telling them you are willing to be a
client, but only if you do not have to disclose, e.g. your SSN. That is
simply negotiation.

The other, much more important to privacy case is where you MUST
disclose information in order to comply with law. In other words, some
form of coercion is involved.

In your case, the only thing to ask yourself is do you think the
information you are giving is reasonable for the service you are
applying for, and are you willing to give the information. If the answer
to either question is "no", then either do not apply, or open
negotiations with the merchant/bank.

-- 
---- Brad Miller miller@cs.rochester.edu
Disclaimer: I disavow any support, or consent for the actions
            or existance of any so called goverment entity.